Learn about us and introduce yourself
#163313 by scambusternumber1 Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:53 pm
Hi, my first post here.

But I'm not new to making a nuisance of myself to scammers, I started nearly 10 years ago. Have been responsible for shutting down about 45,000 scam listings on eBay in 2005/06

Anyway lately I've taken an interest in eBay scams involving mainly cars and diggers/tractors etc. I know there's nothing new about this, but what really angers me is the apathy shown by - hell, everybody on earth it seems. If I stole £2000 from a guy in the street I reckon I'd get arrested. But if someone cons me out of £2000 by persuading me to send them £2000 for a non-existent excavator......oh, that's different. No-one cares. To me it's still a crime, it's still theft, but somehow it's different in a rather important way - the people who do it seem to just brazenly advertise on places like eBay and rake in millions for all I know. Theft on a massive scale.

Can someone explain to me why no-one cares apart from the victims.

Thanks.

removed a facebook link - advertising is not allowed within posts, and we support internet safety here, which means discouraging links to personal pages. - Dotti
Advertisement

#163382 by began steele Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:46 pm
Not so as far as I am concerned. I will hunt and warn and attack fake profiles as much as possible. I don't care on which scam it happens to be. Victims get advice and as much help as possible, as I am sure all those here try to do as well. We all care, and the amount of work done here is a testimony to that. There is NO APATHY AT ALL.

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. ~~ George Orwell.
#163408 by scambusternumber1 Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:16 pm
Perhaps you misundertand.

Obviously there's no apathy HERE, this is the last place to find it. No, I'm talking about 'out there', in the real world, where they have things like Image oh yes - 'Police Forces' and 'Fraud Squads'. I mean yesterday a fraudster made headline news for making fake bomb detectors. Great! One for the team on the good side of the fence: NICKED. But every minute of every day someone gets duped into sending hundreds or thousands of £/$/Euros whatever, and no-one seems to care - least of all eBay, who clearly allow it to go on right under their noses.

If you're reading this and you want to make life harder for the scammers on eBay, here are a few searches you can do that will get results:-

"Advertising for a friend"

"Advertising for a good friend"

"For more info do me a big favour and contact him directly"

Do the search exactly as above, you'll get no results but THEN you tick the box marked Include description. You may well get a hit or three - on eBay UK anyway. Then you report the scam listing. Often diggers, excavators and tractors but sometimes cars. On Tuesday alone I reckon I played a part in getting all 11 scam listings removed a lot earlier than they otherwise would have been. That may still not be enough to prevent the scammer hooking someone in, but the least I did was significantly reduce the 'time window'. It's not difficult to find hard-luck stories, about people who've been duped, and while I will never know the victims or the scammers, it still makes me feel just a little bit better that the scammers probably earned nothing yesterday thanks to my efforts, and unknown invisible almost-victims likewise lost nothing. And to lose 11 hacked ebay accounts could mean - at a wild guess - that 10,000 phishing emails have gone to waste (boo hoo)

I say 'apathy' because eBay could easily crack down on this and make it a non-starter if they were so inclined, and likewise if the Fraud Squad had a department dealing with web scams (even if it was dedicated to eBay and nothing else) they would be busy 24/7 and with the right connections (to eBay decision-makers) could get scam listings removed within minutes if not seconds. They're dead easy to find, if I had a nuke button for each one, they would be history within a few weeks. Only eBay have that nuke button, and they typically take 12 hours to delete a scam listing - that's time enough for thousands to be lost.

Image
#167156 by scambusternumber1 Tue May 28, 2013 7:09 pm
It's been over a month since I posted on here, disappointed to see the apathy I spoke of continue, but that seems to be the way it is.

Since I last posted I've been very active in busting scams on eBay. Mainly they relate to hacked eBay accounts, but occasionally they involve a scammer setting up a one-off account so that in theory the buyer does deal with the seller and no other party is involved.

It's the hacked account type that's the big one, though. Over the past 6 weeks, this is what I've done or discovered:-

There are two (unrelated) groups of people involved in hacking accounts and listing tractors, diggers etc. At the beginning of my involvement, there were typically about 6 listings a day. On Monday of this week that number had risen to 34 (i.e. on that one day) almost certainly because I have been getting the scams shut down much more quickly.

Both groups have similar styles and methods. The much more active of the two, who I call The Bozzers simply because I heard that they are from (or based in) Bosnia, have utilised about 200 hacked accounts and often operate in multiples or stacks, probably to make life difficult for scambusters like myself. It does get pretty intense at times.

The 'usual' method of reporting to eBay is very ineffective - even eBay have admitted this although they did not give a reason. On average, a reported scam listing takes about 5 to 6 hours to be taken down. By contrast, if the hacked-account owner receives my email warning (it is sent at the same time as the 'report item' option), things happen more quickly - probably less than 2 hours on average.

But over the past week I have resorted, where possible, to telephoning the hacked account owner (HAO) in person. This often has dramatically faster results. On Tuesday for example a CAT mini-digger was listed by the Bozzers at 1.04pm, I found it at 1.20pm and phoned the HAO who deleted it at 1.28pm. Total exposure time to fraud was therefore just 24 minutes. I've had only a handful with down-times as fast as that, sad to say. The upside though is that without exception, the response has been (apart from the shock/surprise) grateful and courteous. Since I don't work for eBay, it must seem a bit odd to receive a phone call from me about such a thing, but the bottom line is: it works. It gets scams removed very much more quickly than leaving it in the hands of eBay. I would say that the average down-time when I've managed to make verbal contact with a HAO is about 30-45 minutes. This is my main objective I suppose - minimising the exposure of the scam. The scammers were probably enjoying exposure times of 24-48 hours until mid-April; now it's hugely improved (from a scam-busting POV) and I am in no doubt that, over the past 6 weeks, the scammers' revenue has taken a big hit. This explains their sometimes frantic actions in getting as many scam listings up and running simultaneously; the biggest I've seen is 24, which is intensely challenging to deal with as so many things have to be done as quickly as possible. I've had quite a few HAOs phone ME back, to ask more questions, to thank me, all sorts of things.

The smaller and less active group I call The Galway Gang because they claim to be based there. I don't yet know where they are from but it's very unlikely to be Ireland or the UK. One suggestion has been Ghana; this is because I traced an email address they regularly use to a Ghana website, albeit some details posted in 2006. The Galway Gang only list about 10 scams a week, but they operate in pretty much the same way.

An interesting discovery I made only yesterday was that if a HAO removes a listing him/herself (I should add that the majority of HAOs are female), they are charged listing fees. They may appeal against that, but I don't yet know how many bother to do so (amounts are usually less than £5) or what eBay's reaction is. What I do suspect though is that eBay deliberately take 5-6 hours to remove scam listings as unofficial company policy; if eBay delete a listing, I'm guessing that they do not apply any fees because they have acknowledged that a third-party hacked into the account. So by waiting much longer than they need to, they devise a way of generating an income from scam listings. Frankly it would not surprise me if this were to be the case - very difficult to prove though.

I could continue doing what I'm doing but I'm more interested in seeking legal redress against eBay for breeching The Fraud Act 2006. This extract makes food for thought:-

------------------------------------------------

Fraud by abuse of position

24. Section 4 provides that the offence will be committed if a person:
occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

dishonestly abuses that position, and
intends by means of the abuse of that position –
to make a gain for himself or another, or
to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

25. Section 4 does not define "abuse" or "position". However regarding the former concept the section states that an omission will be enough for an abuse of position to take place. An example given in the Explanatory Notes is of an "employee who fails to take up a crucial contract in order that an associate or rival company can take it up instead at the expense of the employer".

26. The Law Commission's Report offers some assistance with the "position":
"The necessary relationship will be present between trustee and beneficiary, director and company, professional person and client, agent and principal, employee and employer, or between partners. It may arise otherwise, for example within a family, or in the context of voluntary work, or in any context where the parties are not at arm's length." (para.7.38)

------------------------------------------------

I am also occasionally active in busting Autotrader scam listings, the type where images are used to display email addresses. I guess 99.9% of the surfing public know they're scams, but just 0.01% are too naive to know. Just one 'hit' makes for a nice little income for the scammers.

I still find it frustrating that nobody seems to care about all this.

One thing's for sure though: I do.
#167191 by TerranceBoyce Wed May 29, 2013 6:56 am
It certainly isn't true that members here are apathetic, but people operate in different ways and have their own methods and particular areas of interest.

I've been working on the agricultural and construction machinery scammers, who I'm aware work on ebay and off their own scam websites.

You mention vulnerabilities on ad sites, but there are also vulnerabilities in the banking system that scammers are taking advantage of. My background is banking, so I'm not speaking from ignorance. I wouldn't say that the scammers are sophisticated, but when they detect a weakness they'll hit it as hard and as frequently as they can, if they find it gives them a payday. That stresses the system and makes the weakness worse.

I understand where you're coming from but if you appear to be too 'gung ho' it will likely frighten off members who might be able to assist you. The point of this site is to warn and inform victims and potential victims, but a lot of work goes on by individual members on their own. The forum is valuable as I can pick up facts and information that I can then research.

CAR ADVERTS - If a car seller mentions escrow - he's scamming you Never ever for any reason pay anything until you have seen and inspected the vehicle
#172296 by Prestonian Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:12 am
Hi there, I have just found your site and read through these last few postings. I found it all very interesting as I have just been scammed, on E-bay and for a car. The guy was very clever, al the regualr logo's, even a link to a supposed "Live chat" E-Bay help line. All in all I forgot the primery directive "If it is too good to be true, it IS to good to be true".
I have read through various help stuff on the real E-bay and contactd them but so far, they are basically saying they can do nothing. However, I am not giving in and will keep on pressing them. By the way, this all was on the UK site.
I am glad someone it trying to take this stuff seriously and push E-Bay to get things sorted
#172355 by TerranceBoyce Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 pm
Welcome to Scamwarners Prestonian and sorry to hear that you've joined the long list of victims.

Any details you can post would be useful - e-mail addies and the scam formats used. It helps to work out which group snagged you and their current working scripts which are pretty standardised.

If you also feel able to mention the details of the bank account the scammers used we can refer that to the authorities, but only do that if you feel it won't jeopardise your own chances of getting your money back, which I must admit are pretty slim.

CAR ADVERTS - If a car seller mentions escrow - he's scamming you Never ever for any reason pay anything until you have seen and inspected the vehicle
#173028 by Noelle1966 Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:37 pm
Mod Note: PM sent (BW)

I am very new to Scamwarners. I was very close to being scammed, but decided at the last minute to cancel everything and the scammers did get nothing from me. I am so very sorry that there are many people out there that have not been as lucky as I was. This site is very useful for all of the information. However, I would like to make a comment about people who have been scammed. Many people feel ashamed and embarassed and often say, "How could I be so stupid?" When, indeed, these scammers are getting more and more clever.

I just feel that it would be a little bit better if more people were supportive of people who have been scammed. I just joined yesterday and I have already received comments such as "good thing you wised up at the last minute." I really didn't appreciate that. Yes, it is a good thing that I did cancel everything before actually being scammed, but I felt that that particular comment made me feel "stupid" until I "finally got smart."

I'm just saying, it would be nice to take people's feelings into consideration.
#173035 by Bryon Williams Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:24 pm
Hello Noelle1966,

I am sorry if a member here was not supportive and made you feel "stupid". We strongly discourage this here. In the future if a post offends you please report it to a Moderator. You can also click the third symbol up top at the right to report that post.

You are correct anyone from all walks of life can be scammed and scammers are getting more creative.

Once again I am sorry.
Bryon

Please contacta moferatorstor if you have a question or information about this post.



Please do not tell the scammer he is posted here.


Please remember the fallen. https://www.odmp.org/

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests